Talia Lavin Talks Satanic Scares, Horror Films, and Right-Wing Superstitions

It’s a scary season, and many of us feel haunted by sinister forces—no horror movie required. With the presidential election looming and Nazis rallying in public, the right is crafting its own horror story—one that casts librarians, teachers, scientists, migrants, Muslims, and queer and trans people as monsters. In her new book, Wild Faith: How the Christian Right Is Taking Over America, Talia Lavin examines the right’s obsession with demons, possession, and apocalyptic prophecies, while charting the rise of militias, cults, and showmen who have made the right the menacing force it is today. Lavin’s book is not only beautifully written but also a thoughtful, essential analysis of the faith, terror, and ambition driving fundamentalist Christians to reshape the United States in their image. To mark Halloween, I spoke with Lavin about the legacy of the Satanic Panic, the role of horror films in right-wing politics, and how right-wing superstitions fuel conspiracy theories.

This interview has been lightly edited for clarity.

Kelly Hayes: In your book, you write, “The same motivations that led to the Satanic Panic are still alive in the United States and continue to influence our nation’s politics, punditry, and policy.” Can you say more about that?

Talia Lavin: The doctrine of spiritual warfare, which is really popular among evangelicals, basically posits that there’s a small cadre of righteous Christians who, alongside angels, are actively battling demons in the American public sphere. In politics, culture, and just daily life. So there’s a huge audience for the idea of the demonic in daily life, and by this, I mean literal demons, Satan’s minions. You see this reflected in politics all the time – “Demoncrat” is a literal term for a lot of people, and of course, at Trump’s Madison Square Garden rally, a speaker called Kamala the “antichrist” – the idea that defeating supernatural evil which is really tangibly present in daily life is very common on the religious right. That’s in addition to specific allegations against childcare workers and teachers being “groomers” and corrupting the youth, which have really gained a new currency in the last several years. In general, too, conspiratorial thinking in the US really tends towards the spiritual realm. QAnon didn’t posit Hillary as just evil, but as drinking the blood of children in Satanic rituals, in ways very similar to what the daycare workers caught up in the Satanic Panic were accused of. And, of course, that thinking got absorbed into the Republican mainstream rather than going away. 

Hayes: Can you describe the role of movies like "Rosemary’s Baby" and "The Exorcist" in stoking concerns about Satan?

Lavin: It’s really interesting! You have this surge of films about Satan in the ‘70s, and then instrumental to the Satanic Panic are these “recovered-memory” therapy sessions between psychiatrists and patients, which often focused on recovering supposed memories of “Satanic Ritual Abuse.” And in many cases, what patients were “remembering” were specifically scenes from these movies. It really set a pattern for a horror of the devil and of secret cabals of Satan worshippers, and a media image of what that might look like, and brought it roaring into the American consciousness.

Ira Levin, the author of Rosemary’s Baby – which came out in 1967 and turned into a smash-hit film in 1968 – basically said that his book and the film really sparked this trend, and he regretted it. In 2002, he said, “I feel guilty that 'Rosemary's Baby' led to 'The Exorcist,' 'The Omen.' A whole generation has been exposed, has more belief in Satan. I don't believe in Satan. And I feel that the strong fundamentalism we have would not be as strong if there hadn't been so many of these books.” So here’s the author of Rosemary’s Baby saying, whoa there, guys, chill out!

Levin also wrote The Stepford Wives, so it’s clear he had a lot to say about women and society and liked creating these metaphorical horrorscapes.

The Exorcist led to a real-life fad of Americans who were having mental health trouble or were worried about their kids requesting exorcisms of bemused Catholic priests. It also led to a revival in “deliverance ministry,” which is the Protestant version – praying the demons out of people in these very intense ceremonies. Nowadays, you can call up a deliverance minister and even get a remote exorcism by Zoom. But chances are there’s one in your town! They’re really common. And the sites are like, “Are you tired? Clumsy? Depressed? Anxious? It’s demons.” Which really does make a lot of sense in a country with healthcare as dismal as ours. It would be great if that stuff could just be prayed out of you without really long lead times for specialists and no follow-ups or self-advocacy or copays. Just throw up the demons into a bucket while people lay hands on you, problems solved! And thousands of people do this a year, or tens of thousands – enough that “deliverance ministry” is so widespread and presumably financially viable.

Hayes: I’m really worried about the proliferation of hoaxes and conspiracy theories that we’re seeing today. Hoaxes about migrants eating pets have led to bomb threats in schools, hospitals and government buildings. Conspiracy theories about HAARP and weather control have led to death threats against meteorologists. We’re also seeing a demonization of queer and trans people that feels reminiscent of the Satanic Panic. Republicans are characterizing all books that address the realities of queer or trans people existing as pornography, and saying that librarians and teachers should face penalties for exposing children to this material. These characterizations of queer and trans people as a threat to children feel very familiar, and are tied to right-wing religiosity. In light of these threats, can you talk about how superstitions make people more susceptible to conspiracy theories? 

Lavin: First of all, I don’t denigrate religious faith in general. It’s all about how you use it, and how it manifests in the world. With regards to the religious right specifically, I think it becomes more about pattern-seeking. When you’re constantly on guard for signs of the devil at work in the world, and when you understand the world in terms of a war between good and evil with minions of the devil running amok, you begin looking for signs that it’s true, and trying to decode who is on the side of the angels and who is not. Most of that is just about political alignment, but things get pretty weird pretty fast. And chances are, if you’re looking for signs of the devil, a lot of stuff starts smelling like sulfur. You’re gonna find him. Once you’re in this mindset, where everything is sort of a screen for these occult forces, you’re going to be in a more conspiratorial mindset, you’re going to be looking for “evidence” of your beliefs, and you’re going to twist reality until it fits your fears. The term I use for it in the book is “apophenia” – this pattern-seeking gone amok, gone really wild in people’s lives, until it’s almost a consuming force.

Hayes: What are you most afraid of right now?

Lavin: Oh god, this is unfair to ask someone who has panic disorder. Suffice it to say November 5 is next week. It’s a spooky time to be a human woman who is alive in America! 

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