What Do We Say When the Soldiers Come?
"There is no honor in this mission," says counter-recruiter Rory Fanning.
Last week, Trump declared that he was sending National Guard troops to Chicago. “We’re going in,” he told reporters, before adding, “I didn’t say when.” A day later, Trump seemed to pivot, floating the idea of sending troops to New Orleans instead—where, he noted, a Republican governor would welcome his interventions. Then, on Saturday, Trump escalated again: posting an AI-slop Apocalypse Now-style image of himself in war gear, with a burning Chicago skyline behind him and the words, “Chicago about to find out why it’s called the Department of WAR.”
Whether or not troops actually arrive in Chicago, the political trajectory is clear. Trump is using the US military and the threat of federal occupation to terrorize Democratically governed cities—particularly those where Black mayors are defying his authoritarian edicts. Those federal occupations will be bolstered by the addition of 10,000 new ICE agents, who are currently being recruited.
As Trump moves to escalate the militarization of US cities—and expand the scale of raids targeting immigrant communities—activists are faced with urgent questions: how should we engage with National Guard soldiers deployed in our neighborhoods, and how do we push back against ICE’s growing recruitment efforts? To explore these questions, I spoke with Rory Fanning, author of Worth Fighting For: An Army Ranger’s Journey Out of the Military and Across America.
This interview has been lightly edited for clarity.
Kelly Hayes: Before we get into the questions about military presence in Chicago and counter-recruitment efforts, I’d like to start with your story. Can you share a bit about your time in the military, how your thinking shifted while you were serving, and what led you to the work you do now?
Rory Fanning: I walked across the United States for the Pat Tillman Foundation in 2008–2009, following two deployments to Afghanistan with the 2nd Army Ranger Battalion. I became a war resister after the invasion of Iraq and through my own personal experience seeing that the US was not behaving as a force for freedom and democracy around the world but rather the opposite. 85% of those the US killed after 9/11 were innocent civilians—I saw directly how and why this came to be. The US military makes the world a far more dangerous place, not a safer one. Now I am a writer living in Chicago, Illinois. Haymarket Books published my book Worth Fighting For: An Army Ranger’s Journey Out of the Military and Across America. I’ve written for The Guardian, The Nation, Truthout, TomDispatch, and others. I’m a proud lifetime member of Veterans for Peace. And I speak regularly to students as a counter-recruiter endorsed by the Chicago Teachers Union in schools and colleges across the country, but mainly in Chicago.
How do you think Chicagoans should understand the National Guard if they’re deployed to our city?
The US Military employs more than 11,000 recruiters—who act like some of the worst and most obsessive telemarketers once they acquire a student’s contact information—and it spends nearly $700 million on advertising each year trying to convince young people to travel to one of its 668 bases to advance US imperialism around the world.
10,000 students are currently enrolled in Junior Reserve Officer Training Corp (JROTC) in Chicago Public Schools (CPS), which is more than any school district in the country. The JROTC program disproportionately targets children of color in this school system. Currently 50% of those enrolled in JROTC in Chicago are Black and 45% are Latino. JROTC operates in 45 Chicago-area public high schools. Many of these young people end up in the National Guard—not because they are committed to the mission, but because they have been told that this is the only way to obtain higher education, healthcare, and a livable future.
Many of those from the National Guard who may be deployed to Chicago as a result of Trump’s orders do not want to be here. They could be asked to police their own family and community members. The recruiting dynamics for the Guard are similar all over the country: Those with the least amount of options after graduation are the most heavily targeted. You don’t see the recruiters in the wealthier neighborhoods. Not to say that we should ever put our guard down around people following the orders of the US military and carrying weapons, but these folks are not the same as the police, who have been trained to see US citizens as the enemy. Guard members also have very little training, and lack much of the discipline that the police have. History shows us that members of the military and the National Guard can be moved to reconsider their mission because of all of these factors.
What kinds of messages do you think are most effective in reaching soldiers on deployment—especially when they’re being asked to repress or intimidate communities like ours?
Members of The National Guard can be asked why they are doing what they are doing, in a way that recognizes and acknowledges their humanity. Like I said, they haven’t been hardened or conditioned in racist policing tactics like cops have. Reminding them that we are their neighbors and that they most likely would not be occupying US cities at the behest of a Commander in Chief, who is also a rapist, and a war criminal, if we had universal healthcare and free college education in this country. There is no honor in this mission. Communicating the fact that their quest for a better future involves joining activists who are fighting for universal healthcare, education, and a living wage—slogans along these lines can go a long way.
What might "counter-recruitment" look like in a moment of occupation—not in high schools, but on the street, in neighborhoods, at checkpoints?
Appeals to Guard member’s sense of ethics and morality can go a long way. Reminding folks of the moral bankruptcy of Trump. The promise of acquiring honor and proud leadership by “defending their country” is a draw for many Guard members. Recruiters prey on this sense of duty in young people. Reminding them that real leadership and honor comes in advancing opportunities for immigrants and those who are newly arrived in the country, not suppressing these opportunities through fear and terror like Trump is hoping they will.
Are there historical moments you think we should be studying—when community members or movements successfully resisted or disrupted military deployments at home?
The Vietnam War and World War I were some of the greatest moments of war resistance and military upheaval in US history. Hundreds of thousands of civilians and soldiers resisted the war in Vietnam. Tens of thousands (some estimates top 40 thousand) resisted during the failed twenty-year Global War on Terror. Radical change in social policy that benefits the majority often occurs at times when there has been great resistance within the rank-and-file of the military. When soldiers question their allegiance to corrupt and unjust regimes, or question missions that clearly have nothing to do with freedom or democracy, and they see that they are being asked to carry out policies that are only intended to make rich people richer, and then they refuse to fight—as has happened many times in history—the military and US imperialism is made vulnerable. Trump, like many, if not all presidents before him, is really good at placing the blame for the problems in this country on those with little to no political, financial, or military power. His divide and conquer tactics are not new.
What’s your take on the moral or legal obligations of National Guard members to disobey unlawful orders—and how likely do you think refusal is, in practice?
By every moral or ethical standard it is the duty of soldiers to refuse orders to “defend” the US from migrants. History will look kindly upon those who do. There are millions of people who will support a decision to resist Trump’s orders. National Guard members are better than their Commander-in-Chief. My only advice is to resist in groups. Organize with your fellow soldiers. Do not go this alone. It is much harder to punish the many than the few. Again, hundreds of thousands of people have resisted the orders of the President of the United States in US history. There is much historical precedent for refusal.
You’ve spent years doing counter-recruitment work in schools. What lessons from that work do you think directly apply to resisting the massive ICE recruitment push we’re seeing now?
I’ve had hundreds of conversations with students over the years that prove to me that many who sign up for the military would rather be pursuing other life goals. They feel cornered by a system that gives them very few options after graduation. And many of those who sign up for the military have families that are new to this country themselves. ICE is asking students to target their own community members in many instances. What a horrible thing to ask of someone. Recognizing and nurturing these moral dilemmas is key in helping guide people away from the military and ICE.
ICE is actively targeting veterans, especially working-class veterans, with military-style messaging. How should we intervene to disrupt that kind of recruiting?
Many veterans take the idea of honor and service seriously. There is no honor in ICE. Terrorizing hard working families that are just trying to survive is a soul-crushing experience. What good is the small degree of financial security ICE is offering if a person carrying out ICE policies can’t look themselves in the mirror?
What should counter-recruiting campaigns against ICE look like in our schools and community spaces? Who needs to be involved to make this work effective?
Anti-war veterans from About Face and Veterans for Peace can be great resources. Demands for free healthcare and education and living wage jobs undercut much of the messaging of ICE and military recruiters. Many of those who are considering ICE and the National Guard feel backed into a corner. They need to see a path out. Activists have an opportunity to outline a way out for many young people who feel trapped. Solidarity is that way forward.
What would you say to someone who’s considering joining ICE right now—someone who's maybe scared, broke, and feels like they’re out of options?
Despite what Trump and his administration are saying, the migrants moving North towards the US are not a threat. Neither are our neighbors who don’t have US citizenship. Many of these people are escaping intense violence. In fact, much of the reason these men and women—with families just like those in the military or ICE—are fleeing their homes or are living in this country because of the US meddling in other countries’ elections. Look no further than Honduras, where the Obama administration supported the overthrow of a democratically-elected president who was then replaced by a repressive dictator.
These poor and vulnerable people are desperate for peace. Who among us would walk a thousand miles with only the clothes on our back without great cause? Or risk living in a country without papers? The odds are good that a military or ICE member had parents, grandparents, great-grandparents, etc. who lived similar experiences to these migrants. Unless your ancestors are native to this land or were brought here on slave ships, your family members came to the US to seek a better life. Some fled violence. Soldiers need to consider this as they are asked to confront unarmed men, women and children from Honduras, Guatemala, Mexico, El Salvador, etc.
The US is the richest country in the world, in part because it has exploited countries in Latin America for decades. When we treat people from these countries like criminals, as Trump hopes we will, we only contribute to the legacy of pillage and plunder beneath our southern border. We need to confront this history together. We need to confront the reality of America’s wealth, and both share and give it back to the people we stole it from. Above all else, we cannot turn them away at our door. We kill them in one way or another if we do. And then all of us lose our humanity.
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